I guess blogging is as good a place to be introspective and anecdotal as anywhere else, right? I’ve decidedly chosen to “think out loud” here at ThinkTheology.org for a number of years now, so this isn’t really all that new. I’ve written in the past about why I think the “gospel-centered” movements should abandon complementarianism as their default, about why I think William Webb’s redemptive movement hermeneutical model is applicable to complementarians, and discussed why I appreciated “compassionate” complementarianism. Even when I was describing myself as a “soft complementarian,” I was enjoying what egalitarians were saying about trajectory hermeneutics. I even reported my two days of being an “egalitarian” husband and father (day 1 and day 6) in addition to my acknowledgement that our presuppositions play a huge role in how we approach this subject. As these links attest, I’ve done my share of constructive criticism toward complementarianism as well as talked about poor arguments made by egalitarians. As you can tell, I’ve been interested in the subject of women in ministry for a long time. Eight years ago I was a convinced complementarian. Five years ago I was a soft complementarian. For the past two years I’ve been “undecided.” Currently I’d describe myself in the following way:
“I am convinced that the best biblical scholarship, most robustly well-rounded theologically informed arguments, and the consistent witness from church history and my own experience leads me to conclude that women can (and should) serve in all leadership roles within the church, as the Spirit empowers.”
Farewell Luke Geraty.
In order to be entirely transparent here, since this is my introspective anecdotal self-reflection, I should state that I have been avoiding this post like it was the plague! I have many, many, many friends who are strongly complementarian whose friendship I value deeply. And I have egalitarian acquaintances (some are friends even!) who, unfortunately, deeply misrepresent complementarians and I do not want to add to that. I absolutely refuse to use either of those labels (Complementarian or Egalitarian) because they are so charged… and misleading… and carry far too much baggage.
So in keeping with our ThinkTheology.org triad of biblical, theological, and practical reflections, here are my brief reasons for supporting women in ministry in all areas of leadership:
Biblical Evidence for Women in Ministry
As I’ve spent considerable time doing my exegetical homework, I’ve come to the conclusion that the Bible supports the idea of women in ministry as well as serving in senior leadership roles. Throughout the Bible I read God using women in leadership as well as working alongside (and sometimes over) men.
And yes, I have read Recovering Biblical Manhood and Womanhood and Equal Yet Different and a myriad of other books, articles, essays, and position papers in support of Complementarianism. Many of these resources offer some great exegetical insights and are certainly worth reading and weighing. It’s certainly difficult to disagree with scholars like Moo, Carson, Schreiner, Ortlund, Grudem, Piper, etc.
But the more that I have considered the exegetical arguments and read the Bible, the more I’ve become increasingly unable to accept Complementarian readings. I mean, there seems to be some pretty loosey-goosey exegesis when it comes to dealing with the apostle Junia (Rom. 16:7; cf. McKnight’s Junia is Not Alone), Priscilla and Aquilla (Acts 18:26), and the implications of Pentecost (Acts 2:1-18). I’ve also come to the place where I actually disagree with Complementarians that essentially don’t see both Pentecost or Gal. 3:28 as having something to say regarding this topic. For these reasons, I’m no longer a soft-Complementarian.
However, I do want to acknowledge that I still find 1 Timothy 2’s prohibition for women teaching men, and 1 Cor. 14:33-35, challenging. I’ll gladly acknowledge that it’s a difficult text, for both Complementarians and Egalitarians. After all, the passage says that (1) women shouldn’t teach men and (2) women will be saved by having babies. That’s problematic for all sides, I think.
But the more I studied the text, the more I became convinced that there is a cultural context which is important. Plus, the arguments about Paul’s use of creation weren’t nearly as convincing as I thought. As Bird states:
“Paul also appeals to creation in 1 Corinthians 11: 3– 16 in order to establish that women should wear head coverings. Yet all commentators who have done a basic course in hermeneutics acknowledge that the issue of head coverings is culturally restricted to the Greco-Roman environment of Corinth… Thus the appeal to the order of creation in 1 Timothy 2: 13 does not require that the proscription about women teaching men must be uniformly applicable to all Christians at all times, since a broader principle may be what we are meant to take away. William Mounce concedes that “the context thus limits the universal application to some extent,” since elsewhere women did teach (Acts 18: 26; Col. 3: 16; 2 Tim. 1: 5; 3: 15; Titus 2: 3– 4).” (Bird, Bourgeois Babes, Bossy Wives, and Bobby Haircuts: A Case for Gender Equality in Ministry)
I should add that Bird’s book is, in my estimation, one of the most helpful treatments of the subject and his arguments largely won me over as they were, I think, the most convincing exegetical reflections. I also found that while I really respected Complementarian scholars, I also found that Egalitarian scholars existed and were doing significant academic work on this issue. For example, William Webb, Gordon D. Fee, Roger Nicole, Craig Keener, Don Williams, Michael Bird, Walter Kaiser, etc.
At any rate, my inclination is that church leadership should exist in teams, and that those teams should feature men and women serving, leading, and loving congregations. I think this is the most biblical expression of “biblical” leadership in the church (note the quotation marks please).
Theological Evidence for Women in Ministry
My theological evidence is based primarily on my reading (and rereading) of the biblical texts as that is part of my methodology in relation to the hermeneutical spiral (two thumbs up for Grant Osborne’s The Hermeneutical Spiral; by the way, Osborne is an Egalitarian). Here are a couple of brief reasons:
- Imago Dei. The fact that men and women are created in the image of God is significant for me (Gen. 1:27).
- Pentecost. As I already noted, the fact that the Spirit indwells and empowers women and men is significant. In fact, I think it tends to be one of the most important related theological issues.
- Missio Dei. From early on, women were immediately involved in the mission of God. Throughout the NT we read of women’s full participation in spreading the message of Jesus and his kingdom.
- Jesus’ Resurrection. It’s amazing to me that in the culture of 1st century Palestine, the first witnesses to the Resurrection were… *drum roll*… women. And women are the ones who witnessed of the Resurrection to a bunch of hopeless disciples who would soon become Apostles.
There are other theological reasons, but these stand out as being the four most prominent and significant.
Practical Evidence for Women in Ministry
First, the bottom line for me is that Complementarian praxis is just too impossible or illogical for me to maintain. I’ve been told by numerous Complementarians that women can’t teach men because women are “easily” deceived and then told that women can teach children though. What? Women can’t teach men because they are easily deceived but they can teach children who are not easily deceived? Uh… okay. Bird writes,
“As to the complementarian and egalitarian application of this text, I am going to try to thread an exegetical needle between them. I think it is worth pointing out that complementarians themselves qualify or tone down the full implications of their view, and herein is the weakness of their position. For example, some complementarians allow a woman to teach men indirectly through books, radio, and websites but will not permit them to teach men in person. A woman can write a commentary on Hebrews to be read by men but cannot preach or teach men on Hebrews. A woman can be president, a prime minister, a CEO, a general, or a police officer, but she cannot serve as a pastor. A woman can teach men French or piano lessons but not the Bible or theology. A woman can teach Bible and doctrine to unbelieving men but not to Christian men. The problem I have here is that some complementarians appeal to Genesis and the order of creation to show that it is inherently wrong for a woman to be in a position of authority over a man, and yet they only apply that restriction to church life or Sunday worship. But that is like saying that it is okay for someone to commit adultery as long as they do not do it on Sunday or in the church auditorium. Or it is like saying that it is okay to commit adultery as long as you do it with an unbeliever. If it is such a clear violation of God’s ordering of creation for a woman to have authority over a man, then this should apply to all spheres of life whether it is business, government, politics, civil service, or church because God is sovereign over all institutions, and all of life is lived before God and under God.” (Bourgeois Babes, Bossy Wives, and Bobby Haircuts: A Case for Gender Equality in Ministry)
Yep.
Plus, I have been very fortunate to observe some amazing women in leadership as well as observe the Spirit both empowering and using them in significant leadership ways.
For example, the regional overseer of the Midwest North Region of the Vineyard is Brenda Gatlin. Brenda is a great teacher, wise leader, and extremely helpful. She cares deeply about the Church, both those in the Vineyard tribe and those in other tribes. She operates as an effective senior level leader alongside her husband and has modeled consistent character in my observation over the last few years. She’s orthodox, evangelical, charismatic, and just plain great. God has used Brenda to demonstrate what healthy and effective leadership looks like.
Another one of my friends, Aimee Tiernan, has exemplified the character traits of a great pastor and counselor in so many ways I don’t even know where to begin. In fact, it was Aimee who really helped me understand better the plight that many women leaders experience. Even in a movement that has publicly came out in support of women in ministry, there are some who have been less than gracious toward those who have sensed God’s calling and have been released into ministry! Aimee, in fact, has given me tons of advice over the years in relation to pastoral care and counseling. She’s amazing (and her husband, Scott, is great too!).
Also, I have two words for anyone who believes that women can’t or shouldn’t be in leadership: MaryJo Burchard. Boom. End of story. PhD. Wife. Mother. Genius. Leader. Smarter than all of the men I know. MaryJoy is one of the most gifted people I know. She’s like… a ninja.
Did I also mention Beth Stovell? Oh, I didn’t? Well now I am and if you don’t know who Beth is, you need to clock in (check here). She’s a biblical scholar (both OT and NT!!!) as well as excellent in areas related to hermeneutics (full disclosure, Beth edited a book on hermeneutics and also helped me think about ideas related to the Vineyard and hermeneutics in a paper I recently wrote, though all weaknesses are my own).
In addition to these four women, I should also mention that I have an amazing mother (and mother-in-law), a super-amazing-and-beautiful-and-smart-and-fun wife, and three of the best daughters ever to exist in the world… plus I have five amazing sisters. I’m sure that some Complementarians will suggest I am simply a product of my “egalitarian” context (i.e., woman dominated world).
Oh, and many of the women I’ve had the pleasure of meeting in the Society of Vineyard Scholars have been pretty amazing. There are too many to name…
Conclusion
I realize that most of this last section has to do with… experience (*gasp*). Yep. You are correct. I do admit that experience plays a role in my understanding of the discernment process (see the Wesleyan Quadrilateral or even Luther’s Trilateral or any work on epistemology). I’m basically just acknowledging what everyone actually does, though some tend to think they live in a world where experience and other presuppositions don’t affect them (yeah right!).
But I want to make a very important and clear point: I am not a Complementarian because the Bible has led me to a different understanding. And, in response to the slippery slope arguments so often employed, I still align myself with broad Evangelicalism, hold to what Vanhoozer has called “well-versed” inerrancy (or reasonable or informed inerrancy), and affirm the five solas of the Reformation. In other words, I’m still pretty much the same as I’ve always been.
I am actually pretty passionate about respecting both my Complementarian and Egalitarian friends and hope that, in the future, I can help facilitate gracious discussions on the subject. I do not believe my primary focus (or even secondary focus) is to either be divisive in the larger ecclesial world or to make this my hobby horse. I have simply written this to (1) recommend Michael Bird’s Bourgeois Babes, Bossy Wives, and Bobby Haircuts: A Case for Gender Equality in Ministry and (2) to make a clarification on my perspective in light of some questions that some of my friends, family, and church members have asked me.
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I’d love to hear your story and reasons for why you hold to your own position, whether it’s Complementarianism or Egalitarianism. As long as you can be respectful in your interaction, everyone is welcome to weigh in!
- What’s the biggest challenge to your position?
- What’s the biggest challenge to the position that you don’t hold to?
- Did you purchase Bird’s little book yet? After all, it’s only $2.99!
Luke is a pastor-theologian living in northern California, serving as a co-lead pastor with his life, Dawn, at the Red Bluff Vineyard. Father of five amazing kids, when Luke isn’t hanging with his family, reading or writing theology, he moonlights as a fly fishing guide for Confluence Outfitters. He blogs regularly at LukeGeraty.com and regularly contributes to his YouTube channel.
Hmmm slippery sloap much? Boad is the way! You who call black white and white black will be sorry! Have with your Rob Bell like reasoning! Oprah would love this and so would the Devil.
Ha ha ha ha!
@Disableme:disqus, I actually read this comment BEFORE I saw the name who posted it and was like, “Oh my goodness… this can’t be serious.”
Then I saw who posted it and thought, “oh… he isn’t. Phew…” ha ha ha ha.
Initially, I was a complementatian, because that’s what the bible says, right? And then I started learning more and realizing that if you don’t start with that presupposition you don’t reach that conclusion. At one point I tried to have a foot in both camps, holding to the idea that women could teach and preach as long as there was a man in authority above them.
Looking back on it, that actually seems the weakest position, because the compromise doesn’t actually flow from a clear exegesis. Although the very weakest position of all, IMHO, is seen in the churches who say that women cannot preach or teach, except for other women and children — but by the way, they can go be missionaries in Africa. What do missionaries do? they preach and teach, men and women. So in that case, the unspoken praxis seems to be that women can teach women and children and black men. It sounds absurd when put into words, doesn’t it?
Agreed!
A wise man once said, “Everyone gets to play.” 😉
How so Wimber of you!
Signed,
Guy apparently in the real world
I’ve wrestled with this question myself. I don’t know that I’ve yet reached a solid answer. On the one hand I see throughout the scripture women in leadership but have never seen a woman in a pastoral role. While I understand historical and cultural context the passage in Timothy does still say what it says and the same guideline is repeated in other epistles as well. The explanation in the article about limiting the context is a fairly reasonable one though. Someone asked me this once, if God has ordered the home so that the husband is to be the head then why would that change in the church? In the article it states that why would we apply the principle of order only to the church and not to all areas of life. If a woman cannot have authority over a man in the church then the principal would also be true in other areas of life. Well perhaps that’s how it should be in all segments of society. Perhaps women never should have authority over men. That said we cannot impose religious order on a secular society so it’s really irrelevant. The arguments I would use to support women’s place in ministry are mostly based on experience. I’ve sat under some women who we’re amazing preachers/teachers. However that alone is insufficient to answer the fundamental question of does the scripture permit women to occupy this role. I cannot claim not to be influenced by my experience nut if I want to be faithful to the Bible I must make every effort to set my opinion and experience aside and allow the Bible to speak to me rather than imposing any presuppositions on it.
Jimmy, thanks for sharing! Couple thoughts:
First, thanks for your honesty! Wow, it is so good to know others are struggling through these issues.
I also appreciate that you acknowledge that experience is involved in your process. I find that far to many people think or believe that it’s possible to turn our brains (or is it hearts?) off. That simply isn’t the case.
That being said, like you, the decision needs to, in my opinion, be reached based on our reading of Scripture. For me, I have come to the conclusion that the texts often used to exclude women from ministry are, in actuality, not being properly read. This is the case with the 2 Tim. 2 text as well as the 1 Cor. 14 text. I know and understand others disagree and understand their arguments. I just don’t find them persuasive anymore… haha!
No matter how one comes down, there are certainly questions that need to be asked and I can’t say I have it all figured out. But I am interested in learning more.
Great comment though. Lots to think on there.
I am a recently-retired (obviously female) pastor. I am glad for the post above, though I rather wanted to say to Luke, “Well….finally…” and I am glad that you are still wrestling with the issues. I would encourage you to explore wha is meant by “husband is head of the wife.” Hint: It is not “authority over.” It makes me sad that something that bothers you is that you have never seen a woman pastor. But that does not mean that there shouldn’t be more of us. What if someone, back in the day, said, “But I have never seen a Black pastor who was educated?” There are many women pastors out here….maybe not in the specific denomination to which you belong. Here is a link to a sermon I once preached on the “head” issue. http://www.pastoretteponderings.blogspot.com/search/label/Egalitarian%20Marriage
It is part of a series, which you can find if you look in the sidebar for the link called Egalitarian Marriage.
Peace….and hope that someday you meet an excellent woman pastor.
@dorcasgeorge:disqus
Just to be clear, I, Luke Geraty, did not state I have never seen a woman pastor. I have seen plenty 🙂
And I would also like to suggest that comments like “Well… finally” are somewhat unhelpful to having good dialogue on the subject at hand. If a Complementarian said that, I’d be like, “Yo, that sounds kind of arrogant.”
🙂
Note….many months later, that I said “I rather wanted to say…” I was being a bit tongue in cheek. I apologize.
I believe there may have been some misunderstanding on one of my points. When I say I’ve never seen a female pastor I meant in scripture. In experience I have seen some. I have listened to many women who served as either teachers or preachers, many who were quite good. The denomination I grew up in and am ordained through ordains ministers at 3 levels and women can be ordained at the first 2 levels but not the 3rd. I find this to be an inconsistent position. I do believe in the future we will likely ordain women at all 3 levels as there is a movement within the denomination to do so. However I do think it’ll take some time. Our denomination is very conservative and there is still a lot of opposition especially at the highest levels. Personally I am trying to arrive at what scripture says and what was intended. I don’t base doctrine on denomination I base it on scripture.
Sorry, that link was to the end of that whole series. Try this one.
http://pastoretteponderings.blogspot.com/2008/10/heirs-together-part-6-who-gets-to-be.html
Jimmy, I appreciate your honesty. I think we have to remember that God didn’t necessarily “order” the husband to be the head as we think of it – it’s an analogy Paul uses to make an entirely different point, really. As for authority, it is surprising to me that we still use that translation of the word authentein used in 1 Timothy 2. I think Leland Wilshire’s recent (2010) research on that passage to be the most comprehensive and current interpretation out there: http://www.amazon.com/Insight-into-Two-Biblical-Passages/dp/0761852077/. As he notes, Grudem’s interpretation fo authentein as authority is based on a database that has since been updated to show a different conclusion than Grudem reached. But I’m getting carried away – sorry!
Thank you Luke for the thoughtful, intellectual, heart-engaged (in other words, well rounded 🙂 ) post on the subject of women in ministry, specifically women in senior leadership. Most importantly, thanks for the friendship of you and Dawn! I like being able to serve Christ with people having varying views. Such was the case when we met and became friends. You did not judge. You were not demeaning. We merely talked. Shared. Respected. Kept seeking our Savior. Both knew of our individual calling. Both knew individual relationship with Jesus was a cornerstone. A deeper, Holy Spirit draw into serving in His Kingdom existed. So, here I am ordained, recently serving as an associate pastor in a church plant, but years of serving in church lay leadership, Christian Counseling, worship teams, etc… I used to think only men served in senior leadership. Later, at the urging of the Holy Spirit, I found otherwise in Scriptures you sited. That understanding set me free to acknowledge how He made me. A leader in His Kingdom. The Lord gave my Mom a word when I was born. That word was “she will be a mover and shaker in My church.” So, here I am Jesus. Send Me. I shall “move” and “shake” away with kindness, love, respect, and clarity. Blessings brother for sharing your journey on the women in ministry topic and I ask for more of the Holy Spirit in you life and ministry. Not to mention more good coffee, good beer, good sushi, and good fishing 🙂 I shall continue sitting at the feet of Jesus as the men did with Rabbi’s in Jesus day, as Mary did in Luke chapter 10. Learning to lead.
Luke, thank you so much for this! I cannot tell you how encouraging it is to hear about your process of working through this issue in a thoughtful and intentional way. I think there is so much great scholarship on the egalitarian position today, and agree that shared authority is the model that is most consistent with the example set by the early church. It would have been so easy for you to keep this private – using your influence to speak out means so much to those of us at http://www.juniaproject.com. (We shared your link with our readers today – stories like yours are so important!)
Thanks!
Luke:
I loved this post! I am not convinced and still remain what I like to call a “complementarian lite” (less oppressing and tastes great). BUT, I appreciated your honesty. I will try to get Bird’s book. This also further pushes me to write a practical appeal for SVS on “How to live as a complementarian in an egalitarian world!”
Thanks for posting this. It was genuine. It was honest. And it was gracious.
A “Complementarian Lite” Friend,
John
This is such an interesting post! My husband and I have been talking a lot about this very topic lately, specifically related to the church. I do agree with you that women should be in positions of leadership, such as a teacher, pastor, etc. However, I also believe that the top leadership position should be held by a man. As well as the biblical description of a leader in 1 Timothy 3, I would also rely on experience and say that in general, men are able to compartmentalize things. I think that this gives men the amazing gift of being more objective in times of trial and crisis. Whereas, I think women, in general, can tend to make decisions based more on emotion. This is of course not true in all cases, but in general, I think that both of the qualities play into different leadership roles. Does that make sense?
Luke, this is something I continue to wrestle with. Thanks for this. Time to dust off Bird’s work, perhaps I too might change my mind. 😉
Luke, I’ve also studied the arguments (not the extent that you have, though) and also find the egalitarian position far more convincing as a statement of the Bible’s teaching.
I am wondering why you still find 1 Tim 2 (I think you typo’d it to 2 Tim 2) and 1 Cor 14 “challenging”. 1 Tim 2 is understand within the context of the cult of Diana at Ephesus – female converts to Christianity who had enjoyed leadership and teaching roles in their previous faith were trying to take over the teaching before they had been properly instructed. The reference to creation sounds like a Jewish belief that Eve sinned because she was not taught properly by Adam. 1 Cor 14 is almost certainly a reference to disruptive speech given the context and 1 Cor 11.
If you haven’t already done so, check out “What’s with Paul and Women” by Jon Zens.
Ian,
Thanks for your comments! I fixed the typo too (phew, thanks!).
A number of scholars have made the cult of Diana argument pretty difficult to full embrace for me. It’s not impossible, but, not convincing to me as of now.
Regarding everything else: I agree 🙂
Like, what scholars are you thinking of? And what’s the problem? I always want to learn how others see these things.
Man, what an excellent and helpful post! I have recently revisited the issue of women in ministry mainly as my wife (who functions in the gifting God has given her) and then encounters troubling verses that seem to command her to be quiet and make sure she wears a hat:) Did I just buy Bird’s book thanks to your post?….you bet.
I thought I would share an excellent article written by Ken Bailey that was recommended by N.T.Wright.
http://godswordtowomen.org/women_new_testament.pdf
awesome!
It’s good to hear from you, Luke, and great to hear from you on this issue. May God smile on you and yours 🙂
Thanks, Peter. Same to you… and I suppose I’ll be seeing you on Monday 🙂